I'm getting ready to have a mold made.

[sulkair]

Hi all, (sorry so long - stick with me though)

I'm here for advice. I'm going to try to bring a new product to market, it is a simple toy that my Father invented 20 years ago. He had a mold built in Taiwan and a production run of about 10K units. We did sell every toy, but they kept coming back to the states defective, and most needed to be repaired by hand. The project failed for lack of quality control, and my Father's inexperience in dealing with an overseas operation.

I'm doing things differently this time. I've paid an industrial designer / mechanical engineer a lot of money to take my updated design and draw it up in Solid Works - We finished last week and the production packet is in hand. There is one particular Injection Mold company in my city who has went above and beyond in terms of customer service, communication, advice, and encouragement. I've visited several manufacturers and they all have their "show off shelf" of parts they've cranked out. This place I just mentioned was the only one out of 5 that had TOYS, colorful TOYS, on their shelf. a couple products that inventors had actually succeeded in getting even into Toys R us. Of course there were a plethora of gears and gizmos, black and grey, that I had no idea of their purpose also on display. They are ISO 9001 certified by the way, if that means anything?

My toy has two parts, each requiring one side action. It will also require at least an A3 polish on most surfaces. The volume of each part about 22 grams. I will be using a clear Poly carbonate resin.

In addition to some ball-park quotes from other places before I had the CAD model, I've received a real quote from the previously mentioned manufacturer to build a 1+1 steel tool for just south of $22K. I'm considering a first run of 5000. Their in house toolmaker seems to be an experienced man with a lot of confidence and knowledge. They also have connections in China that can do the tooling, and they will guarantee the work, and run the production in their facility here in the US. I'm waiting for the quote on that option.

Now on to my questions:

I'm planning to have a Kick-Off meeting with them this coming week, and will deposit half the 22K with them. By the way I make 34K a year, (can you believe I'm an Airline Pilot?) Yeah it's true! And I've cashed out my IRA to get some start-up capital. Two little kids to feed too. So this is a HUGE amount of money for me, and a giant risk. But I believe very strongly in the product, especially because it sold so well even when it was a piece of junk.

Is there any advice you all can give me on things to ask about, look out for, draw attention to, etc. When I go into this meeting?

Is the price of tooling typically set, or is it acceptable and expected within the industry to negotiate? I don't want to make a fool of myself, yet I don't want to pay top dollar if it's been marked up expectant that I will negotiate down.

Is there a down side to having the tool built in China, EVEN THOUGH THEY WARRANTY IT here? Other than time I mean.

What are the benefits to having them do it all in house, right here, in my city? Granted it probably costs a lot more, but is that generally worth it in the long run?

Is there any technical issues I should know about that typically hang new guys like me up?

Are there any contractual issues - do's and don'ts that I should look out for?

Are there any tell - tell signs I can watch for that should have me running for the door?

Is there anything you can think of that I've not asked but should have?

Thank you all so much in advance, and hopefully someday I can repay you. If your advice ends up being a game changer for me, maybe I can ship a free product to you when they roll off the line. I mean it!

Sincerely,
Nick

PS. moderator feel free to relocate if this is the wrong section.

[Jim]

The tooling cost from China will be lower than if you build it in the States. Sad, but true...I have found with molds built in China that some additional tool work is generally required after delivery. To make your scenario cost effective, you need marketing. Most molders can produce any type of parts you want, so that is not a problem. The resin that you have chosen, clear PC, is rather expensive, and I am wondering why you chose it. PC is quite dense and can become brittle after molding. I try to use Acrylic instead of PC when possible. I am assuming that you are using this material for strength in your parts. If you have the mold built in China for a lower cost, have your molding house do some rigorous mold trials before beginning production. Will save you a lot of headaches down the road. I know I didn't cover all the bases, but you seem to have a tooling and molding shop behind you already. Hope this helps.

[oldtool]

Nick,

Congrats, your about to start the roller coaster ride I have been building or managing tools, to include Chinese tooling for 36 years. Yes, tooling is much cheaper in China, but thier H-13 is not the same quality as US H-13. You need to specify US H-13. I am assuming you are using hardened tool steel with PC. If your planing on running a lot of parts you need hardened tool steel (H-13 to 48-52 Rc minimum). The tool shop must have very specific tooling standards to do work with the Chinese toolmakers. Ask to see thier tooling standards. It should be 25 30 pages long, or more, mine is 42 pages, and specify EVERYTHING. It is much more cost effective to build the tool in China, being an ex toolmaker it pains me to say that But we must face facts. I have built hundereds of tools in China and only had a couple that needed work when they arrived in the states. You must have the contacts in China to be successful there. If your building a 1+1 tool you will either need to have very similar part wieghts or a cavity shutoff so the smaller part will nt over pack. If you get a large spike in orders a 1+1 tool, paticularly running 1 cavity at a time, will be a problem. Given a 60 second cycle, each cavity, you will only get about 250K parts per year and 500K if both cavities run together. As for the tool costs, you can always negotiate a better price. It's best to get 3 quotes and use one to lever another. Always request a 100% first artical before shipping the tool from China. Most US tool shops only have 1 or 2 tool shops in China that they work with. If you want I can give you the names of 2 or 3 that are VERY inexpensive but deliver high quality.

Hope this helps

[sulkair]

Thanks so much Gentlemen for the guidance. I paid 21,700 for a 1+1 family tool. Made in USA. each cavity 22 grams. two side actions on each. It seemed to be inline with the other quotes I received. 6 week lead time and then production. I'll get your addresses when they spit out and shoot you one each . Thanks.

[sulkair]

UPDATE: If you want to take a look at the product - here is my Kickstarter Link. Watch the video and grab your own with a pre-order too.

http://kck.st/LJDy94

[Louis]

What a neat idea!

And I like the fact that your site mentioned Mom capturing and taking the bugs outside, my wife uses a cup and a sheet of paper for everything from flies to spiders so she can capture and release.

There is a marketing tool, go after the ladies

Women . . . can't live with them, can't live without them

[Jim]

What a great idea! I always admire folks who try to make ideas work. Best of luck to you.......